What do you think about schools that say “train with one of the best in the martial arts” and?

… And refer to some standing they have in the World Martial Arts Hall of Fame?

I have seen a lot of advertisments, fliers, web sites, etc… that say something like “if you want to train with one of the best in the martial arts”. That’s a bold claim and I would be apprehensive to ever make such…

Some people want that fame and fortune that comes with a martial art school while others want that unique and hidden kind of school. I think there’s a place for everyone with that. If everyone agreed with everyone and everyone thought the same… imagine how boring that would get.

Personally, I’m with you on this. I don’t want my name to be known or any fame nonsense like that. I think any school who does try and market that to their advantage is pathetic. They’re not the the “best of the best”. Not in my book anyway.

Sensei Scandal’s advertisement makes sense, as that has everything that can be accurately proven, not “just assumed” like when people use the term “world champion” when not everyone in the world even competed.

I put together a flyer once that read: “train under an instructor with 30+ years of experience under some of the top masters in the country”.

I do consider my Teachers to be such and I received a high level of understanding, skill and knowledge from them. I actually got a great response, but circumstances made it so the I could not begin the classes.

The “Halls of Fame” organizations out there are nothing but a circus. These guys are clowns. This is the reason I am totally independent of any organization. I will remain so until I achieve my goal of being accepted in an authentic Chinese Martial Arts Lineage.

You’re not being insulting. You have observed properly.

Haha yeah, those guys are mostly jokes. A lot of them have made up ranks in made up arts, and are clearly out of shape. I spent a long time perusing the hall of fame sites for the various organizations. For the world h/f th inductee only has to be referred to them based on a few points which really don’t indicate skill level as much as they indicate social status in the martial art world. It’s a shame.

Shihan was inducted in some hall of fame some years ago. Funnily enough, out of curiosity, I tried looking for it a couple years back and couldn’t find any trace of him. Eh, I’m not surprised, he loathes that kind of stuff, and tries to stay away from the public eye as much as possible.

Like Sensei Scandal, I too made a flier once with a bit of advertising. It said train with a serious group in authentic okinawan karate, the way it was meant to be… or something along those lines. I also mentioned years of experience, and listed my lineage, for any future questions.

Sometimes advertising is necessary, especially if teaching is a livelihood; but hall of fame and champion this or that… I have to see when these things took place and do a little comparison before I cay “yeah that was back in the day when it was rough!” and jump on board.

Shoot! I’m in the hall of fame too! Just inducted myself. Bring on the congratulations!

First Impression off the top of my head would be, like you said – RED FLAGS. Good chance its going to extremely expensive and quick packaged for all It probally spend more time on marketing and business than martial arts. You will most likely have little or no actual physical instruction with the “hall of famer” other than a drop in or lecture and having that title has nothing to do with his ability to either teach or his mastery of the art. Didnt the World Martial Arts Hall of Fame induct Frank Dux???? LOL

Are those two phrases tied to poor schools enough to use them as reliable red flags to warn off students seeking high quality? Kind of. I think wear they make their money is on Karate Moms. Its always amazing how middle class suburban mothers will buy into anything.

I personally do not have a problem with them. When or if I see that I take it just for what it is “Marketing”. It is their opinion of their school just like sensei scandal opinion of his instructor. We should have high opinions of our instructor. If we didn’t we need to train elsewhere.

As far as Hall of Fame, some are a joke. They are just making a lot of money off of people.I believe some are good. The good one are only attempting to recognize individuals contributions to the martial arts. I happen to personally know only one that does that. The ones that are inducted do not have to show to be awarded. They pay no fees to attend or for the induction. They will be fed if they do come to the banquet. The other guest that attend the banquet only pay a small fee for their meal. It basically covers the cost of the food and the hall rental. I went twice. The food was good. You can eat as much as you want until you are full. They award people from all martial arts and any organization. I witness them award a Judo referee. I forget his name but he has been around for many many years.

I wouldn’t choose a school just because they have either of those listed in their marketing strategy. But I might look at them more closely to see if they are in my opinion legit. I have walked out of a school that had that in their ads and on their buildings.

There is also a Hall of Fame painted on the window of the gym that I go to to lift weights. They have a martial arts dojo inside of the gym. It is not affiliated with the gym. When they first came I used to say I’m going to go by one day to check out the school. Then one day I asked someone was this included in my membership. If it were I was going to just go in in a work out a little with them without them knowing my background. But it wasn’t included. I ended up having a conversation with my sensei about them. He knows the guy. He told me about how they used to go at it back in the day at the top 10 nationals. This was long before point sparring. He asked me to say his to him whenever I see him. So I made a special trip to find him and meet him. They both have a lot of respect for each other. I don’t know what organization honored him for the Hall of Fame. I just know he is a Kempo guy.

I have seen, met, and trained with a lot of great martial artists in my almost 50 yrs of martial art experience and none of them: teachers/sansei/sifu, etc said they are the best (not even in their own system/school/ryu/pai, etc.)

And as for the Hall of Fame, that depend on whose Hall. If one fit that Hall’s requirement, one could be inducted to that Hall. So, outside of that particular Hall and it’s requirements, nothing matters.
The winner of Iron Chef means nothing to the auto-mechanic’s hall of fame and the Iron Chef will never be inducted in the “rock and roll hall of fame”.

Plus, if someone is voted/inducted in last year’s hall of fame, does it means s/he is no longer “fame” this year? Is this person still the great artist as last year or is s/he is replaced by this years hall of fame-er?

People likes to put labels on things but many labels are often misleading or meaningless.
I saw a newspaper in NYC with pages of PhD degree advertisements for almost every professions you can imagine, even for waiters, office manager, and moving companies.

That is because we are blinded. We can’t tell someone is good or bad in what they do and we need to see some form of “certification” or “induction” to feel these people are “good”.

Why do you think there are so many certifications and awards on the walls of some of these places? It is to show you how good s/he is…as s/he is “certified”!

You know what’s going on. The guy that shouts the loudest has the least to say. These schools that make absurd claims keep pulling in the gullible. Did you read the question from the thirteen year old going for 4th Dan in TKD? It’s almost like a filter, anyone who believes these claims is a prime prospect to join as a new student. Anybody who thinks to question the assertions is too discerning.

It seems that I was beat to this question. In short, I wouldn’t train with them. Anyone who displays that kind of behavior isn’t worth it. The best in martial arts are the ones humble enough to not make claims such as that.

I would look at the answer to “judged best by whom”?

Frauds usually are in the company of other frauds. People with real ability usually also attract other people of real ability. Those that can teach, get together with others that can also teach, though they are teaching diametrically different systems.

There are a network of names connected to any one company or school or guru instructor. They can’t hide all of their attitudes and qualities even if they tried. If they are doing something unethically, I’ll sniff it out in time.

personally i think who ever calls themself one of the best…is full of crap. how do you know ur one of the best if you havent fought all martial artists? and how could u possess such a high view of ones self? a martial artists who possess such a high view lacks humility and is unfit to teach, becus hes unfit to learn anything further in his art. He thinks hes the one of the best…and has some standing in a hall of fame…whos? and with what rules? lol

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