…Shouldn’t you formulating hypotheses and putting them to the test, instead of wasting your time claiming the truth value of something you haven’t even proven?
On the other hand, us atheists can wast our time around here, because we have no claim to make, but you should be doing your homework if you…
Organised religion sets itself up for ridicule. I’m sure there were a few that tested the Bible against science, and in a completely non-related matter, I’m sure there are quite a few ex-Christians turned atheist/agnostic.
Faith S – No-one is claiming to be “all knowing”. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” – Albert Einstein. Anyone can be cut open and have their heart examined, not once has the same been said about God or a soul. That logic fails.
cadisney – Physical proof and a divine/personal revelation are different.
“…idea that the brain has evolved to be sensitive to any form of belief that improves the chances of survival, which could explain why a belief in God and the supernatural became so widespread in human evolutionary history.” http://humanists4science.blogspot.com/20…
Woodzy – Crying statue “There has never been one scientifically documented case of a statue crying, blood or otherwise. In all documented cases, these events have been found to have been pious frauds or caused by known physical phenomenon, such as condensation or leaking roofs. Sometimes the liquid may appear to be reddish after picking up dust, paint, mold, or other substances from the statue itself.”
Dancing Sun – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Mirac… has some good points.
atheists can waste their time here because they have NO claim to make ?? Ok, your are a hypocrite and a little delusional yourself…. You are, by even stating what you have stated, that you are *claiming* there is no God for us to worship, believe in and of, and that all we KNOW to be true is not !!! That is a *claim* ! I expect mockery and ridicule from *children*, so I guess that *claim* is truth , because you just made that claim the truth by this question…. Now, on to the *age of NO respect*, that age has been around sense time began, it is nothing new to any one, NOT just Christians… So, again, a truth is unveiled !! On to the *provide proof and or evidence*, I do NOT have to provide you or any one with anything… I am an individual, just as you, and will believe, worship, live as I see fit…. I have lived out side the realm of God, and now choose to live IN the realm of God… My *delusion* is far from that …. I do NOT believe you and or MOST people even know the basic and fundamental meaning of words such as , delusion, brainwashed, abuse, respect, dream, etc…. You talk as if ALL the answers to ALL the questions of the universe are answered, and that you and a few select *others* are the ONLY ones who know those secrets and answers… ROFL…… You speak as if you have the knowledge of the universe, when in fact you do NOT know a . 000000000000000001 % of what is real and not real nor the *how* of it….. I KNOW i don’t !!! As far as homework goes my friend, I suggest STRONGLY that YOU hit the books and study, for YOU know NOTHING about what you speak….. go in peace….. God bless
Faith S, that’s the most ignorant, poor-me, guilt trip answer I’ve seen all night. All atheists aren’t like that, it depends on their personalities. I’ve met more Christians like that than atheists, claiming that everyone else is wrong, and God hates non-Christians, even though you tell everyone that God loves everyone.
Also, if God made everyone the way they were supposed to be, there would be all races, religions, sexualities, and personalities.
You have no way to prove that Christianity is right, and I have no way to prove any belief right, so they’ll just continue to be beliefs, never facts, so no one’s right and no one’s wrong, and you need to keep that in mind.
So many things now are all in the mind, even though some people refuse to believe that. Evil is all in the mind, and so is religion, time, or anything that will always be even partly unknown.
Entropy and causality used as a proof for God’s existence
The second law of thermodynamics states that the amount of energy in a system that is available to do work is decreasing. Entropy increases as available energy decreases. In other words, the purely natural tendency of things is to move toward chaos, not order, and available energy necessary for work is lost (mostly as heat) in this process. Eventually, the universe will run down and all life and motion will cease. This is the natural tendency of all things. Batteries run down, machines break, buildings crumble, roads decay, living things die, etc. Left to the natural state, all things would eventually cease to function.
1. The universe is not infinitely old because it has not “run down.”
1. If the universe were infinitely old, it would have reached a state where all usable energy was gone.
2. But, we are not in this state; therefore, the universe is not infinitely old and must have had a beginning.
2. Because the universe had a beginning, it is not infinite in size.
1. It would require an infinite amount of time to become infinite in size. Since the universe had a beginning, it has not had an infinite amount of time to expand; therefore, it is finite in size.
3. All events have causes.
1. There cannot be an infinite regress of events because that would mean the universe were infinitely old.
1. We’ve already established that the universe cannot be infinitely old.
2. If it were infinitely old, the universe would be in a state of unusable energy, which it is not.
3. If it were infinitely old, the universe would be infinitely large, which it is not.
4. Since the universe is finite and had a beginning, and there cannot be an infinite number of regressions of causes to bring it into existence, there must be a single uncaused cause of the universe.
1. A single uncaused cause of the universe must be greater in size and duration than the universe it has brought into existence.
1. Otherwise, we have the uncaused cause bringing into existence something greater than, or equal to, itself.
2. Any cause that is natural to the universe is part of the universe.
1. An event that is part of the universe cannot cause itself to exist.
2. Therefore, there must be an uncaused cause outside the universe.
3. An uncaused cause cannot be a natural part of the universe, which is finite.
1. An uncaused cause would be infinite in both space and time since it is greater than which it has caused to exist.
4. An uncaused cause would be separate from the universe.
1. Being separate from the universe, which was caused to be, it would not be subject to the laws of the universe since it existed independent of the universe and its laws.
2. This would mean that entropy need not be required of the uncaused cause.
5. This uncaused cause is supernatural.
1. By supernatural, it is meant completely ‘other’ than the universe and is not the product of it.
1. This uncaused cause must be incredibly powerful to bring the universe into existence.
6. The Bible teaches that God is uncaused, is not part of the universe, created the universe, and is incredibly powerful.
1. God’s existence (in Christianity) is not an event, but a state.
2. Psalm 90:2 says that God is God without a beginning.
3. This means that God is uncaused.
7. Therefore, the God of the Bible is the uncaused cause of the universe.
Whoa! Stop right there. You’re deliberately confusing things.
We have evidence of God’s existence, just not the absolute proof you demand before you will “believe,” as you please to call it.
You ought to prove God’s non-existence if you want to make that claim in a logical argument. You know that. That’s why you can’t logically call religious belief “personal delusions.” That’s also why you can’t logically claim that divine revelation does not occur except as dreams or psychoses. Come, I expected better of you than this. So did God.
How do you know what I have been shown or not if the proof of God I have is a personal revelation of truth?
You claim that I dont have any proof. Prove I have never had personal revelation from God. If I saw something happen, but have no ability to prove it to someone else, does that mean that I dont have enough positive proof to know for myself what happened?
The person making the assertion in a court of law has the burden of proof. If I dont care if you believe me or not then why should I have to prove anything to you?
If you are trying to claim that I am wrong about God then you are the one that needs to prove it, not me.
and your claim that you know what everyone has or has not done or knows about God or their own beliefs is just pure arrogance
You only know your own very limited experiences and yet you seem to think it is enough to declare what everyone else has or has not done in terms of finding proof for their beliefs.
Maybe you should stop being so holier than thou and downright condescending if you wanna be taken seriously.
How do you do hypothesis testing on something which is not of nature? Science only works on the natural, not the supernatural. Perhaps you better study more. it is very simple, atheists foolishly try to apply a system designed for the observable towards something which CHOOSES to be unobservable. It is the ultimate misapplication of the scientific method.
Who said God had to play by our “rules of science?” God works inside a person, that is where you find the proof. And what I experience, you will not accept. That is your problem, not mine. It is not science, it is spirituality. Fortunately, I know how the two function.
God gives a man his measure of faith as He sees fit. I have nothing to prove to you. If God wants to reveal Himself to you, He will grant you a measure of faith. If you truly want to see evidence of God, you will sincerely seek Him and you will find Him. If you want to continue a life of mockery and unbelief, you are free to do so. Just be prepared for the consequences. God bless you.
@Faith – This section is not for the sensitive. You really sound whiny. When he or any other mocks us or God, they are only showing the truth of God’s Word. Your rant is not doing anyone any good. Sometimes it is best to walk away from the computer. This is definitely one of those times! God bless.
IMO, the seeking of that which has proven to be true is our personal burden. There is nothing else a true believer needs to do – even a true atheist believer.
Christians who believe know for a certainty that God has no need to prove Himself. Truth maintains Itself. We know that He owes us nothing and has nonetheless mercifully and lovingly spoken.
do you know in history a statue of mary actually cried blood? also maybe you would care to look up the day the sun danced on October 13, 1917? there is a lot of proof historical and religious