So, religious fundies, can you give me a secular reason why homosexuality is immoral?
No, there aren’t any secular reasons to label homosexuality as immoral. The alleged immorality of homosexuality is based purely on theological beliefs. A few religions have claimed it to be so based on a few lines of text written thousands of years ago. The outrage against gays exists due to an inflated emphasis on these texts, of the natural human tendency to fear difference, change, and the unknown. The assertion that homosexuality is a choice is due to the fact that it’s really the only stance one can take if one believes in those theological arguments. Otherwise, one would have to conclude that said religious texts promote an unjust and hypocritical deity.
It’s all a bunch of nonsense. We’re born the way we’re born. Some of us are attracted to the opposite sex, and some to the same. Some of us are born to parents or regions that exact one specific belief, while some are born to others. Some of us actually look at the facts of the situation, analyze the world for ourselves, and are willing to learn despite such indoctrination. Some of us believe that every human being deserves to be free. Unfortunately, the latter 2 are less common than they should be.
There are no secular reasons…just Abrahamic mythology so (mostly Xians in the USA) ignore that it’s found in nature and has always been part of human sexuality…after all, humans are a type of mammal and the behavior is found in other mammal species.
@ zachary, the OT instructs parents to kill their children if they’re too rebellious and demands that a rapist marry the victim as a reward. And polygamy is obviously A-OK…not so much in the NT.
Christianity has quite a bloody past and even recently, GWB said we were going to war b/c God told him to. So, if morality is so absolute among Christians, why are some absolutely opposed to war. Why is it murder when the one guy killed people in the military here but it’s requirement of the job when they’re in another country they invaded?
My point, morality is not absolute, even in Xianity.
BTW, to anyone who compares bestiality to homosexuality…that is retarded. It’s like saying we have child pornography b/c we allow heterosexual people to marry.
@ n, that is false. Alexander (the great) was bisexual and look at all he accomplished. and the Roman era lasted much longer than current society and homosexuality was a part of their society.
@ jesus freak, morality is based on the Bible? Is that why Jack the Ripper mutilated prostitutes body? Was he doing ‘God’s work’ like Hitler said he was in ‘Mein Kampf’?
Charles Manson was raised by Protestant parents in middle class America…was his Protestant upbringing why he turned out to be so moral? What about Timothy McVeigh? Have you ever looked at the statistics of the religions claimed by convicts? Doesn’t say much about ‘Christian morality’.
Is there anything immoral with somebody have sexual relations with a dog? They’re effectively the same thing.
And seriously, you people really need to figure out that the “animals do it” and “people did it in the past” arguments.. don’t work.
Many animals eat their young. Should that be acceptable human behavior?
In ancient civilizations people engaged in human sacrifice.. should that be acceptable now as well?
Incorrect. Dogs can feel emotions and love as much as humans can. So that argument fails, and we’re left with homosexuality being the functional equivalent of a human-dog.
Incorrect. Dogs can bond with a human, in fact given the loyalty and unquestioning love dogs will have towards their masters.. they may actually be better at it than we are. So your second attempt obviously fails the same as your first.
And FYI I don’t support legalizing bestiality.. because it does not fit into human biological norms.. exactly like homosexuality.
You need two receptacles to fit the two poles into! Simple as that! No gods or devils exist anywhere outside of any ones properly inculcated mind! The only truth since the bile says you need a (pretend fake) belief of faith on your part to believe any gods or devils are even believable! Brainwashing gives you that “pretend fake belief of faith”, not any man made up religious “truth’s”!!!
An insane R&S resident-troll, walks into a bar with his many different avatars used to troll with. The bartender say’s, we don’t serve avatars in here. The insane resident-troll says, you were fooled too. These avatars are really me, ha ha. The bartender calls the men in white coats and the insane resident-troll is hauled back to the local Funny Farm. LOL
Morality is a precondition of intelligibility that doesn’t have a reason to exist in a worldview outside of God and the Bible. Can you provide any reason that anything is immoral? I know you don’t believe morality is completely subjective, so why does it exist universally when electrochemical impulses in everyone’s brains are so different?
Natural selection. Societies that disapprove it outperform those where it was accepted. Societies that approve of it are on their way to the dustbin of history.
Its unnatural, like instant coffee and the internet.
It’s all outlined in the Argument from “I Think Gay Sex Is Gross So It Must Be Wrong Somehow”.
Even if they try to justify their opinion without religion, their opinion was caused by their religion, so it’s baseless anyway. Religious people don’t condemn homosexuality on scientific grounds, they just use pseudoscience to justify the bigotry.
@How would: Slippery Slope fallacy: Homosexuality is not related to and does not lead to bestiality. Plus, unlike cannibalism, homosexuality is harmless (as harmless as straight sex). What an absurd and paranoid concept of sexuality you have. Gay people are already having sex, getting married, and living their lives; so far the world has not descended into savagery. In fact, homophobia is more savage than homosexuality itself.
There is no such thing as a secular reason for something to be immoral. The secular worldview would probably hold that most things aren’t bad because things that make you feel good or things that you decide are good, are good. The only way to decide if something is bad from a secular worldview is if that action is bad from a utilitarian perspective. In other words, is it bad for the majority of people? Morality is tied to God and religion. If something is moral, it is more than just bad or good. It adhears to a standard or an absolute. For many people, this standard is the Bible. However, I can give you some reasons how homosexuality is bad.
One reason its bad is because homosexual relationships don’t last very long at all. According to the Family Research Council, “The 2003-2004 Gay/Lesbian Consumer Online Census surveyed the lifestyles of 7,862 homosexuals. Of those involved in a “current relationship,” only 15 percent describe their current relationship as having lasted twelve years or longer, with five percent lasting more than twenty years. While this “snapshot in time” is not an absolute predictor of the length of homosexual relationships, it does indicate that few homosexual relationships achieve the longevity common in marriages.” A diagram on their webpage shows that most homosexual relationships last for only 1-3 years.
Also on their webpage were these studies:
In The Sexual Organization of the City, University of Chicago sociologist Edward Laumann argues that “typical gay city inhabitants spend most of their adult lives in ‘transactional’ relationships, or short-term commitments of less than six months.”
A study of homosexual men in the Netherlands published in the journal AIDS found that the “duration of steady partnerships” was 1.5 years.
In his study of male homosexuality in Western Sexuality: Practice and Precept in Past and Present Times, Pollak found that “few homosexual relationships last longer than two years, with many men reporting hundreds of lifetime partners.”
In Male and Female Homosexuality, Saghir and Robins found that the average male homosexual live-in relationship lasts between two and three years.
Now let’s compare heterosexual marriages to homosexual relationships. According to a study published in the Journal of Sex Research in which 884 men and 1,288 women were surveyed, 77% of men and 88% of women had never cheated on their spouse. Another survey from The Social Organization of Sexuality: Sexual Practices in the United States found that 75% of husbands and 85% of wives had never had sexual relations outside of their marriages. Yet another survey conducted for Parade magazine for which 1,049 adults were selected, representing the demographic characteristics of the U.S. found that 81% of married men and 85% of married women hadn’t ever violated their vows.
Let’s compare the above statistics to homosexual relationships. A Dutch study found that, on average, a homosexual man had 8 sexual partners per year. A study of 2,583 homosexuals which was published in the Journal of Sex Research, found that the average number of sexual partners for a homosexual during their lifetime was 101-500. Ten to fifteen percent had between 501-1000 sexual partners. Another 10-15% reported having more than 1000. Yet another survey conducted by the homosexual magazing Genre found that 24% of the respondents had more than 100 sexual partners within their lifetime.
Now that we’ve discussed the duration of homosexual relationships and the number of sexual partners they have vs. the number of sexual partners most heterosexuals have, let’s discuss the commitment in male homosexual relationships. While 85% of married women and 75% of married men reported never cheating on their spouse, only 4.5% of male homosexuals in relationships reported being faithful to their partner.
A quote from the Family Research Council website states, “According to McWhirter and Mattison, most homosexual men understood sexual relations outside the relationship to be the norm and viewed adopting monogamous standards as an act of oppression.”
In the Journal of Sex Research it was reported that only 2.7% of homosexuals have had one partner in their lifetime.
Whether it directly affects my life or not, we can see that homosexuals in relationships tend to have more sexual partners, less sense of a need to be faithful to their partner, and their relationships tend to be short-lived. All of us would recognize these things as bad. If we continue to support homosexuality, we are going to see it affect our nation in a negative way.